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Crisis proves a curse for Greece's Orthodox Church

Page last updated at 08:07 GMT, Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 13:07 EST

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Reuters:

A Greek faithful lights a candle from a Greek Orthodox priest during the Orthodox Christian Easter service in the Church..
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Close links between the Greek state and the Orthodox Church are turning from a blessing for the clergy into a curse as the debt-laden government struggles to fund the ancient institution, just as impoverished Greeks need its charitable work most.

Starved of money as the state makes huge spending cuts, the deeply conservative church which grew from one of the earliest centers of Christianity is seeking new sources of funds.

But despite a new spirit of enterprise, such as at one monastery which wants to build a solar energy farm, numbers of priests are dwindling, those that remain are suffering pay cuts, and the church is fighting to keep soup kitchens open as unemployment soars and poverty deepens.

"The tills are empty and the system is collapsing," said Ignatios Stavropoulos, a modernizing priest who has his own page on LinkedIn, a social website for professionals.

Under a 60-year-old treaty, the state agreed to pay priests' salaries in exchange for large amount of church property, including land. But this means more than 10,000 priests are now on the government payroll, putting a 190 million euro ($250 million) annual burden on the country's overstretched budget.

Read the whole story: Reuters

Comments

Time for disestablishment

April 21, 2012 by Irlandos (United Kingdom ), 1 year 8 weeks ago

The Orthodox Church of Greece has been married to the Greek State and has reaped many benefits in return. It is only natural for the Church's fortunes to go down as the State is going bankrupt.

One solution would be disestablishment: allow the Church to go its own way and live off collection plates like the smaller denominations do in Greece. Some of these smaller denominations, incidentally, are doing fine maintaining soup kitchens and other charitable works.

And while we are disestablishing the Church, can we please get rid of archaic laws on "proselytism"? We have become the laughing stock of all Europe.

Re: Time for disestablishment

April 23, 2012 by Jim Adams (United States ), 1 year 8 weeks ago

Irlandos wrote:
can we please get rid of archaic laws on "proselytism"?

If it's not asking too much, can you enlighten us or point to a direction where we could find info on the subject? Thanks.

Re: Time for disestablishment

April 24, 2012 by Irlandos (United Kingdom ), 1 year 7 weeks ago

@Jim Adams:

Article 13, paragraph 2 of the Greek constitution states "Proselytism is prohibited" - without any definition of proselytism.

There have been a number of cases where Greece has gotten unfavourable exposure internationally by enforcing the law
e.g.
*Greece v. Donald Stephens, Alan Williams and Costas Makris in 1984, where the three were sentenced to 3.5 years in jail because a teenager who stayed with them converted to Protestantism. The sentence was revoked after a world-wide outcry.
*Greece v. Emmanouil Damavolitis in 2006, where a Pentecostal lay person shared his faith with a friend and now faces four months in prison and a fine of 840 euros. The trial gained international publicity and made the news at CBN broadcasting (Virgina Beach, VA).

There have also been cases against Jehovah Witnesses (e.g. Greece v. Kokkinakis (1993) and Greece v. Manousakis (1996)) which received publicity as the JW's are a worldwide group.

It's a different world for Greeks who are not of the Orthodox faith.

Re: Time for disestablishment

April 23, 2012 by tieyetos (Canada ), 1 year 8 weeks ago

@Irlandos:
dont forget its greekastan you talking about.. that would not happen..

its not that simple...

April 23, 2012 by Freethinker (United States ), 1 year 8 weeks ago

I have no love for the church, I see xtianity as one of the worst tricks played upon the world and especially Europe and the occident in general. It bears much of the responsibility of the downfall of Greece and Rome and the loss of the vitality, imaginations, common sense, and creative energies of both those peoples and others. First they took away our real religion, replaced it with soul crushing unnatural garbage and lies designed only to profit the people who created it, now they want to see it weakened til it fades into oblivion. Huch as I've come to know the church for the mostly harmful entity it is and has been, I dont know that it'd be a very good thing to weaken the black robed parasites just now either. Sad as it is, it's one of the few unifying factors the Greek people have at the moment despite the fact it's proven all but useless in that regard.

Again, recall those words Kissinger allegedly said in 1974:"The Greek people are anarchic and difficult to tame. For this reason we must strike deep into their cultural roots: Perhaps then we can force them to conform. I mean, of course, to strike at their language, their religion, their cultural and historical reserves, so that we can neutralize their ability to develop, to distinguish themselves, or to prevail; thereby removing them as an obstacle to our strategically vital plans in the Balkans, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East."

As mentioned, whether one wants to accept he said it or not, or whether he admits it or not, is irrelevant. In the past 30+ years(especially) this is precisely what has taken place, and Kissinger does indeed belong to groups which have malevolent designs on Greece. Greek Orthodoxy has weathered this period without many major setbacks until now, which presents an unprecedented opportunity for the church to be weakened. BTW i do believe in a separation of church and state 100% all the same, especially in Greece, ASAP, although surely there must be a constructive way in which to make it happen.

The debt issue altogether is a scam, it's important for people to realize this. It's an issue of the bankers and some of their useful idiots denying Greece the opportunity to develop her own unexploited resources, and using this phantom of debt and the bogus crisis as a way to grab much of it for themselves and impose crippling policies in line with their program upon Greece that only serve to purposely harm the country and its people.

Some links on the subject of Greece's unexploited Oil, Gold, Uranium, Osmium, Radon, Nickel and others(just a few of many such link btw). Greece should be one of the richest countries, perhaps even the richest, in Europe if only her govt and people had the guts to do whatever it took to ensure they start exploiting their own resources...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8M-rJULXlo

http://hellasfrappe.blogspot.com/2011/12/special-report-greeces-natural-...

Another link on the subject though mostly opinion but nonetheless interesting:

http://www.datehookup.com/Thread-451285.htm

Hellas' proven and potential resources which lay largely unexploited is one of the main reasons for the treatment Greece has been singled out for and is receiving today(dont forget, plenty of countries owe far more money that Greece, and in the past Greece has defaulted on more than one occasion. Turkey even moreso). Apparently this "crisis" coincides precisely at a time an agreement which forbade Greece from developing these resources comes to and end, by the way. Its these questions that to me seem most important to ask and have answered, and are the most newsworthy yet receives precious little coverage and never in the proper context(doing so would further expose the "crisis" for farce that it is).

I submit to you that a dynamic, self-reliant, vigorous and wealthy and therefore potentially influential Greek state is something which the international bankers(or, put simply, Rothschilds et. al.) cannot easily stomach.

But it's far more difficult to see Greece and her people have to stomach this perpetual injustice. There's still time to make a difference, still time to claim Greece's rightful place in the world and turn things around for the better. Developing a mere fraction of Greece's resources would see Greece return to profitability in a surprisingly short time. Greeks need to stand up for themselves and stop accepting that which is unacceptable... An equitable solution is urgently needed for the development of those resources and therein lies the key to a better future for Greece.

Re: its not that simple...

April 23, 2012 by Jim Adams (United States ), 1 year 8 weeks ago

Freethinker wrote:
Again, recall those words Kissinger allegedly said in 1974:

Can you please stop posting things 'allegedly' said? I've got a gazillion of 'alleged' quotes for you. Here's an alleged quote for you: Jim Adams allegedly said "Can you please, for Pete's sake, stop posting the same unrelated mambo-jumbo on every subject?"

Re: its not that simple...

April 24, 2012 by Freethinker (United States ), 1 year 8 weeks ago

@Jim Adams:
that quote is taken from a story from '87 in a popular Greek magazine, and from there to who knows where else. I cant be 100% sure about the veracity of the claim, and so its only fair I point that out. Kissinger, however, has earned a dubious reputation and is considered by many to be a war criminal who's formulated plots in part or whole which resulted in: assassinations, plots to overthrow or otherwise undermine sovereign governments, countless needless deaths(including in Cyprus) and even genocide (Cambodia). His actions in the past along with the organizations he's been and is a member of and/or has endorsed, at very least make the veracity of the quote about Greece worth considering.

More significant than the comment is that its contents have nonetheless materialized in real life and continue to do so. FYI, some readers may not consider that to be "unrelated mumbo jumbo" and have the right to at least be made aware of info they may consider pertinent. If you read the post and somehow cant see how the contents of that comment fit in with it or how it relates to the topic of the article re the Church, thats unfortunate.

Re: its not that simple...

April 24, 2012 by Jim Adams (United States ), 1 year 8 weeks ago

Freethinker wrote:
some readers may not consider that to be "unrelated mumbo jumbo" and have the right to at least be made aware of info they may consider pertinent.

Now you're getting somewhere. It reminds me however of all those Viagra, Cialis and Xanax emails that those kind individuals send out in the hopes that some people mind have a need for their product. But I believe they have adopted a word for that? "Spam" is the the word I think. Look it up.

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